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Success Stories
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click a picture above to reveal that person's success story!
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Sunil Bali: From corporate burnout to professional speaker...
NICK: So, this is Nick Williams and I am with Sunil Bali.
Hi Sunil.
SUNIL: Hi Nick, how are you doing?
NICK: Great, great.
SUNIL: Good to see you again.
NICK: So, you have been on the mentorship programme with
myself and with Niki and you’ve been to the events over the last few months.
We started speaking in March didn’t we?
SUNIL: Yeah, indeed we did, yeah.
NICK: So, for anybody listening who’s thinking about
joining this programme, I thought I would just ask you a few questions about
your experience and where you’ve got to...
SUNIL: Yeah, great.
NICK: And how people can relate, hopefully, to your experience..
SUNIL: Okay.
NICK: And you’re okay for me to ask you a few questions?
SUNIL: Okay. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
NICK: So, where were you when you joined the mentorship programme
that you have been going through?
SUNIL: Okay. In terms of where I was, I think, I was in a
place where I knew what I wanted to do. I thought I knew exactly what my message
was, and I thought I knew how I was going to get that message to market, but
increasingly there was some resistance there. And in terms of my background,
I am not one that procrastinates, I take action. So it dawned on me that I needed
to practise what I preach and actually hire a coach, someone that I could resonate
with and work with to take me to the next level.
NICK: you’ve come from a corporate background haven’t
you?
SUNIL: Yeah, my background is more recently I was head of
recruitment for Abbey and Vodafone. Recruitment is my bag but I’ve done
everything from running a £50 million recruitment company to being head
of resourcing for a corporate. You know I’ve ticked all the boxes in terms
of the corporate side of things, and as you know, I’ve been successful
in terms of financially but I wasn’t necessarily happy.
NICK: You thought there was an inauthenticity within you,
didn’t you?
SUNIL: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, there was. I wanted to
express my authenticity and increasingly corporate life wasn’t the vehicle
for me to do that. So whilst yes it was paying the bills and having a good lifestyle,
NICK: Your heart wasn’t in it?
SUNIL: My heart wasn’t in it, no.
NICK: So you left last September – September 2007 is
that right?
SUNIL: I did, yes, September 2007 and I intentionally took
some time off so until now working 70/80 hours a week running all over the UK
for Abbey – and it was a very stressful job – I wanted to take some
time out, so I didn’t really do anything until December – I had
a really good time learning my Blues guitar..
NICK: You needed to decompress in a sense?
SUNIL: Yeah, decompress, yeah..
NICK: From corporate life.
SUNIL: But then come sort of January time, you know, January
to March – was when we spoke in March – now I was trying to then
get out there, do what I wanted to do, you know I want to be a speaker, writer....and
I started to put together some content but there was some resistance and I just
wasn’t making any real progress, and as I said earlier I was surprised
because I take action..
NICK: When you focus you do something?
SUNIL: Yeah, I really do, yeah.
NICK: So it was that uncomfortable for you?
SUNIL: It was yeah, and I realised I needed help.
NICK: Just out of curiosity for anyone listening, why did
you choose me to work with particularly?
SUNIL: I am one of those people that, you know, I was fortunate
to have an absolutely massive training budget... and I am not sure that I should
go on record and say this...but I just spent great chunks on myself but my team
as well, and so you know my library is massive in terms of self-help books and
improvement, so one of those books is your good self... and being recruitment,
being head of recruitment, I could reconcile with some of the technical stuff
and processes what you are saying about doing the work we were born to do. But
particularly around the heart and the mind and how that works together, and
you use a great phrase on your courses, and also I think it might be in one
of your books, that isolation is a dream killer, and I realise from my corporate
background that the greatest successes you can’t achieve in isolation
and I thought I needed to work with someone to help me move forward, and what
you said in your book particularly...or books actually because I’ve got
all of them now (LAUGHS) resonated with me.
NICK: My sense of what we’ve helped you with is, a)
to find your voice, b) to give structure to what it is that you have to say
and c) kind of identify where it is you want to take that.
SUNIL: Yeah, very much so. I think if I was going to say where
you’ve really added value. And honestly part of me thought when I hired
you was, you know, how is this guy really going to add value ...I’ll be
brutally honest, I wasn’t absolutely sure how you were going to add value...
but I knew I needed someone else, and I was on the verge.. I was talking to
someone else, who’s a very, very successful speaker from corporate world,
and I thought I know how to do sales and marketing, I’ve done it before,
I’ve run a huge business, I know what I want to do. Its not that I don’t
know what I want to do, but intuitively I just thought you could take me to
the next level, and what you have done is provide clarity on my content from
the audience, how I am going to approach that, whether its more the spiritual
angle of what I want to say or whether its the corporate angle. What you’ve
helped me to do is be authentic, and there has been some tension in terms of
conflict of what I want to do. So there’s clarity in terms of the content,
so where you talk about finding my inner voice...I’ve always known success
is a process is anything you want to do, and what I’ve been really impressed
with yourself and Niki, is its not this sort of lamppost - what I call lamppost
coaching – because you can go and talk to a lamppost for half an hour
and you’ll feel great...and not wishing to decry a lot of the life coaches
out there, but in my experience a huge number of them that’s what they
do, they are no better than doing the lamppost coaching. What I’ve been
really, really impressed by is that we have gone down a structure and a process
to overcome limiting obstacles one by one so that I am totally comfortable with
what I’m saying, what I’m doing, where I want to get to, how I’m
going to get there. Sure, you know, there is going to be some feedback and the
plan will change and it’s a nutritive process, but what I’ve been
really impressed by is that it’s been practical. I’m at D in my
evolution as opposed to A and I need to get to Z, this is how we are going to
do it. To be honest, I’ve known that all along but you do need someone
else, I’m convinced. My first Degree was in Sports Science so having worked
at the top of the corporate game, we do need people to overcome our resistance
and help us. Everyone has a coach, anyone that’s achieved anything in
life...
NICK: So, has being accountable in a way, having an accountability
relationship and knowing that you had projects and conversations to have, has
that helped you structure?
SUNIL: That has helped but I think it’s a lot more than
that actually. I think, if I may be so bold, you are doing yourself a disservice
really. It’s been a lot more than being accountable, so it’s not
just being I’ve got Nick and I’ve got to produce something in two
weeks, you know like we were talking about the content for the speech, it’s
been a lot more profound than that. It’s been about actually the contents
that I’m happy in delivering in a clear message, and why is that so important?
The reason it’s important is that’s what is going to resonate with
my audience, and if it resonates with my audience, they are going to buy it.
So what I feel I’ve achieved, again putting my business hat on, is that
if I look at my investment and what I’ve paid you...which I don’t
know what it is, but anyway...my return on my investment will be paid a zillion
times over..I know that. In terms of where we’ve gone from at the beginning
of the life cycle to the end of it.
NICK: My sense of view is that you’ve really built some
strong foundations now...
SUNIL: Yeah...
NICK: and you’ve begun to go public with what you’ve
kind of got clear about...created...and the next step for you is really coming
out...
SUNIL: Yeah...
NICK: and becoming much more public with who you are and what
you’re doing.
SUNIL: Yeah, and one of the ways you’ve done, and again
it works for me and I think, I’m sure it will work for everyone else really,
is that you’ve really stress tested everything that I’ve got to
say, that I’ve written..you know, conversations over coffee that we’ve
had on the courses, which have been fantastic...you’ve stress tested everything
so that I might have been completely confident about something, and I thought
well actually maybe I need to look at that again and maybe I need to...you know,
it’s not that I’ve changed a belief or a value, but I need to position
it slightly differently, and through that stress testing, I’m totally
confident in my message and I know that it will be completely successful.
NICK: And what have you learnt about yourself in this process?
SUNIL: Yeah, again that has been very, very profound. We’ve
spoken about, you know I’ve always realised that I had to undo quite a
lot of conditioning; you know I’m Indian and all the baggage that that
entails....
NICK: You mean to make your family proud?
SUNIL: Yeah, make my family proud, status, identity...you
know security is the most important thing and happiness will follow if you are
earning the big money, and I did...I wasn’t miserable but happiness was
shopping on New Bond Street at Prada, etc and I realised that wasn’t really
it, so what I’ve learnt about myself, you’ve helped me in terms
of acting as a catalyst, a sounding board, but also feeding back ways of expressing
my authenticity..and again just you’ve acted as a mirror but it’s
more than that....you’ve provided some really meaningful insights. I think
one of the things that’s been fantastic is I’ve worked with a lot
of coaches down the years, you know I’ve worked with people who have charged
tens of thousands of pounds to coach one person... of a board of a very well-known
PLC...but I think what has impressed me more than anything is the quality of
your questioning..is the questions that you’ve asked me that have made
me dig very, very deep and sometimes look at areas that have been quite uncomfortable
but they’ve provided the foundations for where I am now, and I’m
rock solid now. So success is a matter of time...you know I’ve had a very
successful corporate career and I know that success will happen, I’ve
not even the slightest doubt about that, and a great part of that other than
the questioning is its been so insightful...so profound...and relevant, it’s
not someone from a coaching script who’s been on a life coaching course
saying, “Okay..you know...”
NICK: “This is what I ask you now...”
SUNIL: “This is what I ask you now...” which is
so often what happens.
NICK: You know that I talk a lot about resistance and that
we experience it as we are getting closer to what we really want to do and you’ve
not been immune to the resistance aspect. How’s it shown up for you and
how have you overcome it?
SUNIL: I would probably preface that by saying someone like
me, and I’m quite a bang, bang, bang this the goal, this is how I want
to achieve, let’s go out there, let’s kick arse and let’s
go and do it... I don’t, resistance for me has never really been that
much of an issue before. If I’ve set out to achieve something I have achieved
it, so in some ways this was new territory for me. I thought there’d be
a bit of resistance, I wasn’t naive enough to think there wasn’t,
but I’m sitting at my desk, I’ve got some content, I’ve got
a plan of where I want to get to, but I’m not really doing anything, I’m
going round in circles, I’m making a few phone calls here and there but
I’m not doing it. The resistance for me...and again through your questioning
and the structure you provided me... has been around my conditioning, to undo
and unlearn thirty years of baggage around my identity, my status, my peer group
and losing a job that pays well into six figures, etc, etc, and doing something
different...and yet, deep down, I know I’m going to be even more successful
doing that...is helping through that resistance, and I think what you’ve
provided me...you have the knowledge and the expertise and I think one of the
reasons I hired you now, I realised that was a level of expertise that you have..you
know there’s some content there, you know what to say, what to do, what
to ask in terms of unearthing those nuggets really, and that’s what you
have done.
NICK: you know I’ve spent a long time unearthing my
own gold, if you like...
SUNIL: Yeah, yeah..
NICK: When I’m in the process with you, or with anybody,
of helping you unearth your own gold...
SUNIL: Yeah, yeah...
NICK: I understand what process we are likely to go through.
SUNIL: Yeah, and I think you’ve been incredibly perceptive.
I mean we had a couple of sessions and we were moving forward and it was great,
but there was still a bit that I was stuck at, and at the back end of a course
you pulled me to one side and said that I need to speak to you about this, lets
set up a call and let’s look at this last bit of resistance because we’re
still getting stuck..I knew I was getting stuck, I’m 90% there, but that
10% was still holding us back, and you know how do we get through that resistance
and that struggle. It was part of me and my message being too corporate and
trying to put the square peg in the round hole and trying to make my message
fit the audience rather than me being authentic, and I realised that the only
place that I would be happy and be successful was by me being authentic... and
I come back to the original point, if I look at what I’ve spent...and
it probably is a fair bit actually (LAUGHS), on you, I work on return on investment,
being clinical about it...I will get my money back a million times over, you
know and I hope this is a long-term relationship, and I am sure it is.
NICK: Thanks. I am curious how you’ve found the combination
of working one to one and coming to the events has been. Has that been helpful
to you as well?
SUNIL: Oh, massively, massively. There was a part of me that
thought once we’d signed up and we’d had a couple of sessions...we
had a couple of sessions before an event, I can’t remember...and you said
to me well this course is going to be pretty much the same as we did at the
last two sessions. So a part of me thought I’m not sure how useful this
will be, but I know having done a zillion courses, you know it’s one thing
going through stuff and there’s that reinforcement, but I cannot STRESS
strongly enough how valuable the courses have been. Because you have done different
things, there’s been different learning, there are different nuggets of
information that come up...there have been light bulb moments and I think that’s
been the difference, there have been light bulb moments when we have been speaking
on the phone and the coaching, but there have been light bulb moments on the
courses and part of that is you are dealing with other people’s journey’s
and the struggles and resistance they face and also the things that have worked
so you learn from them as well.
NICK: I see it so often when you’ve been working on
something at home or inside yourself and you start to put it out for public
scrutiny...
SUNIL: Yeah.
NICK: In a safe place...
SUNIL: Yeah.
NICK: There’s tremendous affirmation that can go with
that.
SUNIL: Oh completely...I was shocked, you know the couple
of statements I’d made around you’re trying to summarise what I
want to do and this piece around writing an article “Chase your patch
and not your pension” and I thought that was quite catchy but the affirmation
I received from the course was “that’s fantastic” and...
NICK: People want to read your articles (LAUGHS)
SUNIL: Yeah, people wanted to read...someone actually said
to me “can you print me that article, that sounds great” and I said
well I haven’t it written yet I’ve just done the heading, and there
was another thing around trying to summarise, sort of elevate a pitch, what
I try and do is make limited people limitless... I thought that was quite catchy,
I’d actually nicked it from someone else, it’s not original by any
stretch of the imagination...and again the affirmation was “wow, that
is fantastic” and similarly other bits which people thought well actually
that’s great, but perhaps you want to put this spin on it or that, and
just again honing the message, which was fantastic. And not withstanding that
you meet some great people who you keep in touch with through the forum and
I’m still in touch with some people and it’s great.
NICK: And has this had any impact on your wider life..you
know with your family and friends and stuff, are you feeling the benefit?
SUNIL: Very much so. One of the things that I would say, and
I come back to this point about hiring a coach, although I don’t perceive
you as a coach actually because this is a mentoring relationship which I think
is different from a coaching relationship and I think is a bit more personal.
I come back to that point about achieving anything in your life. One of the
things for me was that in my journey a lot of my peer group are the Directors
of companies and successful businesses, a lot of people..you know, you’re
giving up a very well paid job to do something completely different... but now,
you know having spoken to you and having that affirmation..I’ve received
that affirmation that I probably wouldn’t have received from my contemporaries
and peer group, and friends..you know, I’ve got some great friends who
couldn’t quite understand...I’m lucky I’ve got a small group
of friends that do...but it’s great to have another source of someone
who walks the talk, been there, seen it done it, has the t-shirt, has gone through
the highs and lows of the process...so my life has changed in that I’m
a lot more confident..confidence has never really been a problem for me (LAUGHS)..
NICK: But maybe areas where you’ve felt a bit defensive...
SUNIL: But there are areas where I’ve felt defensive
and a little bit unsure, but know I think, having done quite a few sessions
and come on a few courses..I would say I’m bulletproof, I’m absolutely
bulletproof..and there will be questions that I get asked and I will say look
I don’t know the answer to that necessarily but this is what I believe
and this is why it’s worked for me, these are the real world examples
of where it’s worked for me in my personal life...as a psychotherapist
where it’s worked for me..in corporate life where it’s worked for
me..so again, authentic.
NICK: So is there a sense of possibility that’s now
open to you that wasn’t there for you, say five months ago when we started
talking?
SUNIL: Yeah, I think it’s probably not so much a sense
of possibility, because in arrogance (LAUGHS) I always knew I could do it, and
I have never really failed at anything in my life...I knew I could do it, and
I knew there was a process and a path to follow...what I wasn’t clear
on was that process and path and what I underestimated was the resistance and
the struggle borne of conditioning in my case, it’s different for different
people, and how to overcome that. I just don’t think you can overcome
that yourself. You either have a tremendous support mechanism and group of people,
but I still think there is someone, something, that needs you to build that
level of energy and create that momentum to break through to that next level
and get you on the road, and we’ve spoken many times about one place where
that ship of dreams isn’t going to find you, sitting at home, no matter
what content you’ve written, no matter what website you’ve got,
no matter what you’ve done, you’ve got to get out there and I think
that’s been the single most impressive thing about what the value you’ve
added to me is practically. This mentorship programme isn’t about rah,
rah, rah, making me feel positive and getting some content...which is all great
stuff and it you’ve done all that stuff and it’s honed my message...this
is a practical mentorship programme about being successful and living the life
that I want to life, I couldn’t ask for more than that. And ultimately
it has to be down to me, I mean you can’t do it for me.
NICK: No, I can show you how to find the path you take..
SUNIL: Yeah.
NICK: And what are your next steps then?
SUNIL: My next step, as you know, we’ve achieved a lot
together..we’ve got a signature article that we’ve done and we’ve
got four or five articles now that I need to go to media with..we’re in
August so it’s silly season – holidays...I’ve got a marketing
plan, and people that are entities, corporates, that I want to get out there...for
me, one of things that I’m putting together is the CD set which I will
launch early next year which I will get some Internet gurus which I will outsource..which
is something I do best...getting other people to do things that I don’t
want to do...and market that, and getting out there and speaking, and doing
it and creating the momentum.
NICK: And you’re looking forward to that?
SUNIL: Yeah, I’m absolutely bursting with energy and
really looking forward to it and totally motivated...
NICK: Well that’s good because it feels like it’s
been a bit of journey for you because at one time you weren’t hugely motivated
were you in a way?
SUNIL: No, I wasn’t..I mean I’m in a fortunate
position, but also, I’ve realised, an unfortunate position in that I have
a wife who’s a GP and is a very successful partner in a very lucrative
practice who is probably too nice and would let me sit on my backside for the
rest of my life if I wanted to..and I could probably afford not to work because
of her...so that has been part of it, you know..and the lack of motivation,
and it surprised me, has been more around this authenticity and getting my message...it’s
got to be authentic, my stumbling block was I couldn’t get my message
out there until it resonated totally 100% with me, and it had to be 100%, 90%
wasn’t good enough and that’s something personal to me, it had to
be 100% authentic and now it’s 100% authentic.
NICK: I remember one of the first conversations we had, I
think even before you hired me, you said, “just tell me what to do and
I’ll do it”, and I thought well it’s not just going to be
that because my sense for you it was about shifting your motivation from what
you had to do to what you felt inspired to do and I feel that now you are in
a much more inspired to do it place..
SUNIL: Completely, yeah...
NICK: Than this is what I have to do, it’s more now
this is what you want to do.
SUNIL: I don’t know whether you realise this, but I
am sure you do because you’re a very bright bloke, is that I was inadvertently...a
lot of my success in corporate life has come through modelling successful people..and
in fact one of the reasons I hired you was because my area of expertise is work,
as is yours...and modelling you was great...and I have done that to quite a
large extent...but I was in danger of trying to be a clone of you, and I think
what you’ve done very well, particularly in the last couple of sessions...
I don’t know whether you’ve done it intentionally or not, but you’ve
moved me away from becoming Nick Williams’ clone; and I’m never
going to do Nick Williams as well as Nick Williams does Nick Williams...
NICK: Your job is to be you not me.
SUNIL: My job is to be me and I think what you’ve done
very well...and also again I come back to this quality of questions that are
unbelievable, I mean they’re so insightful...I mean absolutely phenomenal
that have made me look inward and look at what I’m doing and make me realise
that hey, you know, yes there’s a lot of parallels in terms of the work
thing, but we are different and we come from a different place, some of our
message is going to be similar but are story is going to be completely different
and our authenticity comes from a different place...and I need to focus on that...and
that’s what you’ve done, I find..I mean I’ve hired an awful
lot of coaches to work with Board-level Directors to middle management...and
I find that the trap that they fall into is that they try and project their
model of the world and reality onto the people that they’re coaching so
that they say “well this has worked for me so you’ve got to do that”,
whereas you haven’t done that. You’ve said, “this process
has worked for me, this is what’s helped me on my journey”, but
you have to find within this structure...you’ve given me a structure....in
which to move to the next level, and I’ve had a lot of freedom within
that, I’ve not become a Nick Williams clone.
NICK: You know it’s the last thing I’d want, because
I’m about authenticity and it’s about you finding your authenticity
not finding my authenticity, that’s my job.
SUNIL: Completely, yeah.
NICK: Great. So thank you for sharing your experience..
SUNIL: It’s been an absolute pleasure.
NICK: So hopefully people have got a better idea of your experience
of being on it and what they might get out of it for themselves.
SUNIL: Yeah.
NICK: Anything else?
SUNIL: No. If anyone’s doubting going on this mentorship
programme, as I said you know I come from a hard nosed business arena and I
come back to this return on investment...the money I’ve spent with you...
and I will carry on in some way, shape or form...has been an absolute investment,
so I would encourage anyone to do it wherever they are on their journey, and
whether they know what they want to do and are clear...because I thought I was
a long way down that journey...and I was..
NICK: But in some ways you were..
SUNIL: In some ways I was, but that clarity...there were some
bits that were missing...I would say go for it, and if you’ve got any
doubts, I am happy for you to contact me.
NICK: Thank you very much. Thanks for taking the time to talk
to me.
SUNIL: It’s a pleasure Nick, an absolute pleasure.
NICK: Thanks.
SUNIL: Bye.
Find Sunil here: http://www.sunilbali.com/
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